Does Junior come back to Seattle now??

Ken Lagerquist · Post by **Ken Lagerquist** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:23 pm

What do u guys think, does this open the door for his return to finish his career in Seattle???

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/b ... index.html

Casey Fisher · Post by **Casey Fisher** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:16 am

I would like to see it, but who knows if it will happen. Griffey can't play Center Field very effectively anymore and they have that guy with his first name on the back of his jersey in Right Field... I would absolutely love to have him come back as DH. Ever since Edgar left, our DH position might as well have been DO (Designated Out).

Ken Lagerquist · Post by **Ken Lagerquist** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:27 pm

they could always put Ichiro in Center and Junior in Right or even slide Junior into LEft. Tho Junior at DH would be great especially with his history of Hamstring issues. Would hate to see him pull one again and be out for 2 months or more. We could use his bat anytime and can fill the field with someone else. Plus it would proloing his career maybe 5+ more years too

Mike Nordin · Post by **Mike Nordin** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:59 pm

Ok, I love jr too, but he would have to be in left. Ichiro said he doesn't want to play center and jr can't play center (or at shouldn't) so he plays left (if he agreed). I think jr is good enough to adjust. He will not play DH. He already said so.

As far as the m's go, I don't really care, as long as they change 80% of their roster.

Ken Lagerquist · Post by **Ken Lagerquist** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:36 am

i definitely feel LEft Field would be a good spot for Jr. IF he were to come back to Seattle.

Lauren A. Scrafford · Post by **Lauren A. Scrafford** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:36 am

Ken Lagerquist wrote:i definitely feel LEft Field would be a good spot for Jr. IF he were to come back to Seattle.

They would be better off to resign Raul Ibanez to play left field. At this point in their careers Ibanez is a better everyday player than Griffey Jr. He is also less prone to injuries and is a couple of years younger. Griffey as a DH and part time outfielder would be a better fit, but is he going to be worth what his asking price will be?? Griffey has had two decent seasons in the last 8 years. Are you signing him for what he did 10-15 years ago or what he will do in 2009 at the age of 39?????????? Ibanez has gotten better with age and Griffey has declined since age 30. Look it up Griffey hasn't had 100 rbi's since 2000. Ibanez has had 100 the last 3 seasons. I believe the Mariners are trying to get better do they get better with letting Ibanez go and signing Griffey? NO........ If they keep Ibanez and sign Griffey then that may help the team. Ibanez made $5.5 million last season and Griffey $8.5 million. I would give Ibanez a pay increase to at least what Griffey made and offer Griffey $5 million plus incentives much of what would be based on his playing time and production.

Ibanez was also the Mariners best clutch hitter last year, though Ichiro out hit him. I believe Ibanez was one of the few players on that team who actually gave 100++++++++% all of the time....

Lauren

Mike Nordin · Post by **Mike Nordin** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:20 pm

I Raul already made it clear he wants to be on a contender and is looking elsewhere for a contract. I agree with you when it comes to performance numbers and jr, however it would be nice for him to end here in Seattle. So I guess the answer to your question is yes I am speaking from what he did 10-15 years ago. I do agree with you though that his salary would have to be lowered to 4-5 million and would have to have an agreement on DH and left field. He won't do either one though.
Actually, I think they should dump the team except Clement, lopez, betencourt, morrow, ryan rowland smith, fierybrand, and aumount. I think you could build around that core. Lower the salary, go for young talent, and build for a 2-3 year run. I would have included Raul in that list for EXCELLENT leadership, except for the reason stated earlier.

Lauren A. Scrafford · Post by **Lauren A. Scrafford** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Mike Nordin wrote:I Raul already made it clear he wants to be on a contender and is looking elsewhere for a contract. I agree with you when it comes to performance numbers and jr, however it would be nice for him to end here in Seattle. So I guess the answer to your question is yes I am speaking from what he did 10-15 years ago. I do agree with you though that his salary would have to be lowered to 4-5 million and would have to have an agreement on DH and left field. He won't do either one though.
Actually, I think they should dump the team except Clement, lopez, betencourt, morrow, ryan rowland smith, fierybrand, and aumount. I think you could build around that core. Lower the salary, go for young talent, and build for a 2-3 year run. I would have included Raul in that list for EXCELLENT leadership, except for the reason stated earlier.

Mike:

I haven't really been following this that close, but I thought his comment was that he would be interested in coming back depending upon how the Mariners approached rebuilding the team. In other words I believe if he got a good offer from Seattle and the Mariners made enough moves that would possibly put them in the 85-90 win category, he would consider coming back. I believe if they don't make him an offer and go for Griffey to play left field they will be going down the same road that Bavasi was responsible for. Griffey is not an everyday outfielder anymore, period. I agree with most of your assessment of the current team. Lopez would be about the only untouchable in my book. And if I were Bill Veeck, none would be untouchable.

Lauren

Mike Nordin · Post by **Mike Nordin** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:15 pm

Well, I guess on all fronts we agree then. I didn't know that Raul left the door open, so I would be open to him coming back for a reasonable price. I'm just tired of paying large contracts to guys who don't perform. I would like the team to go cheap for a couple of years, trade out for draft picks and prospects, and then after they build to a contender then pay one, or even two players to get them into the playoffs or beyond.
All in all we all want the same thing, but I'm ready for the waiting game now as long as we make real efforts at building.

Casey Fisher · Post by **Casey Fisher** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:20 am

Lauren, I loved your comments on how valuable Raul Ibanez has been to the Mariners. He has been the backbone of the team for the past 3 or 4 years. However, I highly doubt that he will be coming back to the Mariners. He is going to get some good money elsewhere and wants to go to a contender. Seattle would have traded him at the trade deadline to the Twins, except for the fact that whatever team that takes him as a free agent this off-season, Seattle gets a compensation first round pick in next summer's amateur draft from them. I agree with Mike that they need to go younger. The Rays proved this year that young talent can win. I do hope though they bring Griffey back just so he can finish his career where he started. The guy is a Seattle living legend and either him or Steve Largent would be considered the biggest Seattle sports legend of all-time. He would bring excitement back to a ballpark that was way down last season.

Anyways, sorry for my rambles. The key to the whole next season in my opinion is Erik Bedard. If he can pull his head out and is healthy, I believe Seattle will have one of the better 5-man rotations in MLB. At least a formidable enough rotation to make a playoff run with these guys:

1 - Felix Hernandez - the man
2 - Erik Bedard - needs to pitch like the star he is
3 - Brandon Morrow - going to be an excellent starter; sky is the limit.
4 - Ryan Roland-Smith - came on last year as a good starter
5 - Jared Washburn - still a crafy lefty who will be where he belongs (a #5 starter and not a #2 or #3 starter)

Maybe I am a naïve Mariners fan, but I believe they can compete next season if this is their starting rotation. A few solid free-agent bats would help an awful lot as well...

Lauren A. Scrafford · Post by **Lauren A. Scrafford** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:50 pm

Casey Fisher wrote:Lauren, I loved your comments on how valuable Raul Ibanez has been to the Mariners. He has been the backbone of the team for the past 3 or 4 years. However, I highly doubt that he will be coming back to the Mariners. He is going to get some good money elsewhere and wants to go to a contender. Seattle would have traded him at the trade deadline to the Twins, except for the fact that whatever team that takes him as a free agent this off-season, Seattle gets a compensation first round pick in next summer's amateur draft from them. I agree with Mike that they need to go younger. The Rays proved this year that young talent can win. I do hope though they bring Griffey back just so he can finish his career where he started. The guy is a Seattle living legend and either him or Steve Largent would be considered the biggest Seattle sports legend of all-time. He would bring excitement back to a ballpark that was way down last season.

Anyways, sorry for my rambles. The key to the whole next season in my opinion is Erik Bedard. If he can pull his head out and is healthy, I believe Seattle will have one of the better 5-man rotations in MLB. At least a formidable enough rotation to make a playoff run with these guys:

1 - Felix Hernandez - the man
2 - Erik Bedard - needs to pitch like the star he is
3 - Brandon Morrow - going to be an excellent starter; sky is the limit.
4 - Ryan Roland-Smith - came on last year as a good starter
5 - Jared Washburn - still a crafy lefty who will be where he belongs (a #5 starter and not a #2 or #3 starter)

Maybe I am a naïve Mariners fan, but I believe they can compete next season if this is their starting rotation. A few solid free-agent bats would help an awful lot as well...

Casey:

At the time of the trade deadline last year no one knew whether Raul would be a type A or B free agent. The Twinkees put in a claim on Raul and Washburn, but the Tigers also claimed Ibanez and had a worse record at the time; thus they were awarded him but could not work out a deal with Seattle. Obviously Seattle thought they had a gold mine as neither player was turned. I agree more than likely Ibanez will not return to Seattle but the door is open and even he said he would return under the right circumstances. A lot is made of compensatory draft picks by some people concerning baseball, but generally speaking they don't mean squat. This isn't football where a draft pick can make the team immediately. In baseball compensatory draft picks make make the team 3-5 years in the future if ever.

Former legends don't win ball games. They do put people in the seats but only as a short fix.

Bedard may not be ready for the start of the season and is projected as being ready to go from surgery any time between April and June. Hernandez has to be slated as the #1 starter that I agree with you on. Morrow is going to be a good pitcher. I have always been suspect of Bedard concerning his injuries. He is going to be 30 and has only pitched over 30 games once. Smith is at best a #5 pitcher but has a lot of juevos. I can't agree with you on Washburn. They should have kept Moyer he is the crafty lefthander. You and Mike are correct they need to get younger, but age isn't the big problem.
The main problem is attitude. A lot of the players on this team need to get a new start on life elsewhere.

Lauren

Casey Fisher · Post by **Casey Fisher** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:15 am

Lauren A. Scrafford wrote:Casey:

At the time of the trade deadline last year no one knew whether Raul would be a type A or B free agent. The Twinkees put in a claim on Raul and Washburn, but the Tigers also claimed Ibanez and had a worse record at the time; thus they were awarded him but could not work out a deal with Seattle. Obviously Seattle thought they had a gold mine as neither player was turned. I agree more than likely Ibanez will not return to Seattle but the door is open and even he said he would return under the right circumstances. A lot is made of compensatory draft picks by some people concerning baseball, but generally speaking they don't mean squat. This isn't football where a draft pick can make the team immediately. In baseball compensatory draft picks make make the team 3-5 years in the future if ever.

Former legends don't win ball games. They do put people in the seats but only as a short fix.

Bedard may not be ready for the start of the season and is projected as being ready to go from surgery any time between April and June. Hernandez has to be slated as the #1 starter that I agree with you on. Morrow is going to be a good pitcher. I have always been suspect of Bedard concerning his injuries. He is going to be 30 and has only pitched over 30 games once. Smith is at best a #5 pitcher but has a lot of juevos. I can't agree with you on Washburn. They should have kept Moyer he is the crafty lefthander. You and Mike are correct they need to get younger, but age isn't the big problem.
The main problem is attitude. A lot of the players on this team need to get a new start on life elsewhere.

Lauren

Lots of valid points Lauren. They have to pitch Washburn more because he is being paid $14 Million next year. Although for a month or two stretch last year Jarrod was very good.

If Griffey stays healthy, which is a big iff... He is still a very productive hitter and I think could hit 30 homers and have 100 RBI's for the Mariners. Although, these are numbers Ibanez would probably put up as well. I just think it would mean a lot to the fans and the franchise to bring Griffey back. I don't think they should break the bank on him though.

I am very excited to see what their new GM will do with hiring a new manager and getting free agents.

Mike Nordin · Post by **Mike Nordin** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:02 pm

Pitch Washburn 2 months, trade him, and then pitch aumount.
I agree with Casey, Jr is good if cheap.
On team chemistry, I not sold on felix. I love the idea of over selling him.
Ichiro, if he is the club house jerk, also would be good to sell high.
Jojima, I don't how we could do it, but he needs to be cut loose. too little production for huge contract.
First base, third base, and LF great spots to build on.

Casey Fisher · Post by **Casey Fisher** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:45 pm

Mike Nordin wrote:Jojima, I don't how we could do it, but he needs to be cut loose. too little production for huge contract.

This was one of Bavasi's "finest" moves to re-sign him for a few more years and big money. Especially when one of your top 3 prospects (Jeff Clement) is a catcher. I was puzzled then, and still am now... If they could trade him to any other team, they Mariners would be better off, even if they only get Minor Leaguers in return.

Lauren A. Scrafford · Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:47 pm

Mike Nordin wrote:Pitch Washburn 2 months, trade him, and then pitch aumount.
I agree with Casey, Jr is good if cheap.
On team chemistry, I not sold on felix. I love the idea of over selling him.
Ichiro, if he is the club house jerk, also would be good to sell high.
Jojima, I don't how we could do it, but he needs to be cut loose. too little production for huge contract.
First base, third base, and LF great spots to build on.

Mike:

All great and valid points. On Washburn I really doubt anyone will trade for him unless he pitches lights out in April and May, especially with that 14 million dollar conctract. I think the only way he heads out of Seattle is if Seattle assumes a large chunk of that contract. Thank you Mr. Bavasi..........A big contract for 1 good year 2002?????

Like you, Ichiro could bring a great return, but as GM you might get strung up in Seattle.............

Felix is young, has a load of talent but appears to be a bit on the immature side when it comes to composure. That may rub some the wrong way, but I have seen it a number of times from him.

I agree 100% with you on Jojima. He should have been benched earlier and the job given to Clement with Burke as the backup. The guy fell apart like a $25.00 suit last year both offensively and defensively. Too little production for anything but a backup....He was actually worse than his stats show since he padded them after Clement went down for surgery.

A lot of holes in this lineup, especially without an Ibanez.

Lauren

Lauren A. Scrafford · Post by **Lauren A. Scrafford** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:13 pm

Casey Fisher wrote:
Mike Nordin wrote:Jojima, I don't how we could do it, but he needs to be cut loose. too little production for huge contract.
This was one of Bavasi's "finest" moves to re-sign him for a few more years and big money. Especially when one of your top 3 prospects (Jeff Clement) is a catcher. I was puzzled then, and still am now... If they could trade him to any other team, they Mariners would be better off, even if they only get Minor Leaguers in return.

Mike:

The real problem with Johjima besides his total tanking last year is that no one is going to assume that $24 million dollar contract for the next 3 years without Seattle picking up a portion of it. The way he played last year he is a backup on a contender unless he really comes back. I would think a couple of mid level prospects and paying a big chunk of that contract is about the only thing Seattle is going to get(at best) for his services.

Besides the Johjima contract you have Silva 3 more years at $36 million, Washburn this year at $14 million, Batista this year at I believe 9 million and one more year of Beltre at $12 million dollars. That's 55 million for 5 players in 2009 who have contributed very little in the production, except for Beltre who has been so/so except on defense. I would hate to be the GM that stepped in this mess. Who would want these players and their contracts???

Lauren

Mike Nordin · Post by **Mike Nordin** » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:53 am

Ok, now I'm really depressed!

I really hate bavasi!

He really sold the m's down the river, what the hell was going through his mind? I'm one frustrated M's fan...I'll still go the games though.

Casey Fisher · Post by **Casey Fisher** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:03 pm

I hope us Mariners fans are up for having a no-name manager with no head managerial experience:

"SEATTLE -- Former Mariners infielder Joey Cora, currently bench coach for the Chicago White Sox, is among seven candidates to be interviewed for Seattle's manager job.

New Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik was to start interviews Monday by speaking with Boston Red Sox bench coach Brad Mills.

Also on the list are Arizona Diamondbacks third base coach Chip Hale, Boston third base coach DeMarlo Hale, St. Louis Cardinals third base coach Jose Oquendo, Triple-A manager Randy Ready and Oakland Athletics bench coach Don Wakamtsu.

Former Milwaukee manager Ned Yost, who worked with Zduriencik while the two were with the Brewers, was not on the initial list. Yost could be added later."

Lauren A. Scrafford · Post by **Lauren A. Scrafford** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:23 am

Mike Nordin wrote:Ok, now I'm really depressed! I really hate bavasi! He really sold the m's down the river, what the hell was going through his mind? I'm one frustrated M's fan...I'll still go the games though.

Mike, if you want to be depressed imagine being both a UW and WSU football fan?????????????

Lauren

Lauren A. Scrafford · Post by **Lauren A. Scrafford** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:10 am

Casey Fisher wrote:I hope us Mariners fans are up for having a no-name manager with no head managerial experience:

"SEATTLE -- Former Mariners infielder Joey Cora, currently bench coach for the Chicago White Sox, is among seven candidates to be interviewed for Seattle's manager job.

New Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik was to start interviews Monday by speaking with Boston Red Sox bench coach Brad Mills.

Also on the list are Arizona Diamondbacks third base coach Chip Hale, Boston third base coach DeMarlo Hale, St. Louis Cardinals third base coach Jose Oquendo, Triple-A manager Randy Ready and Oakland Athletics bench coach Don Wakamtsu.

Former Milwaukee manager Ned Yost, who worked with Zduriencik while the two were with the Brewers, was not on the initial list. Yost could be added later."

Casey:

Another report added John Farrell and Rick Sweet also to the mix.

Most of these guys have a lot of minor league managerial experience and major league bench coach or coaching experience, though as reported and commented none have major league experience.

Of the ones I have known Brad Mills has about the longest resume. He and Terry Francona played together at the U of A plus with the Expos and he has been Terry's bench coach the last 5 years. I got to know him when he was in the Rockies organization at Colorado Springs as their manager for 5 years. They won the 1995 PCL Championship. He has also been a minor league manager for the Cubs and the Dodgers, major league coach with the Phils and Expos. He is a sharp guy and would do a good job.

Chip Hale is another I knew when he was in the PCL. He played for the Twins organization including the big club in 1989-90, 1993-96 and the Dodgers in 1997. He is another U of A product. Has managed in the Diamondbacks organization 2000-2005 with excellent results. He has spent the last 3 years as a coach with the Dbacks. Smart guy who has done a great job right up the ladder. If given the chance would really be an improvement for the M's.

John Farrell former Indians, Angels and Tigers pitcher. He had one really good year with the Indians, but hurt his arm. Coached at OK State 1997-2001. From 2001-06 Indians Director of Player Development. He did a superb job there. 2007-08 Red Sox pitching coach under Francona. No managerial experience which is sometimes good. A longshot if he is actually on the list.

Don Wakamatsku former White Sox catcher. Cup of coffee in 1991. Also with the Dodgers and Reds organizations. He was a good AAA catcher, but never got much of a shot. Nice guy, calm and organized. I knew him when he was in the Dodger organization and he never got a shot there. He was a manager in the Angels organization 1997-2000 where he Cal State League Manager of the Year. 2001-02 Angels Roving Catching Instructor. 2003-2007 Rangers coach. 2008 A's bench. coach. He has been in the same division as the Mariners the last 6 years at the major league level so he has a good idea what is going on in Seattle from a distance. I am sure Don would do a good job.

Joey Cora is well known to all of the Mariners fans. I knew him when he was in the Padres organization. Good heads up ball player. Played in the majors iwth the Padres 1987-89-90, Chisox 1991-94, Mariners 1995-98 and ended with Cleveland in 1998. Managed in the Mets organization 2001-02. Expos Class A 2003. White Sox coach 2004-08. Bench coach the last 3 years. He has also managed in Venezuela during winter ball. Has actual major league experience filling in for Ozzie Guillen during his suspensions.. He would be a favorite in Seattle.

Rick Sweet was reported in a different report. He has a long history with the Mariners. He played with the Padres in 1978, the Mets in 1982 and the Mariners in 1982-83. In 1984 he was the Mariners bullpen coach. Scout with the M's in 1985-86.
1987-88 Minor League Manager with the M's. He went to the Astros organization as a Manager from 1989-1995 won the championship with Tucson in 1993. 1996 Astros coach. 1997 Mets minor league manager. 1998-2000 Expos Minor league Manager. 2001-03 Portland PCL manager. 2004 Tigers Minor League manager. 2005-08 Louisville (Reds) manager. About 20 years as a minor league manager. He has done well everywhere. He may be a longshot and is not familiar with the M's current organization. Another good baseball man.

Demarlo Hale not too familiar with but remember him from playing with Red Sox and A's organizations in the 1980's. He worked for the Bucky Dent school 1989-92. Coach 1992 Red Sox minors. 1993-95 Red Sox minors manager. 2000-01 Rangers Ok City manager. 2002-04 Rangers coach. 2006-08 Red Sox coach. He was also with Francona before with the Rangers.

Jose Oquendo longtime major league infielder. He has spent almost all of his career in the Cardinals organization. 1983-84 Mets. 1986-95 Cardinals. 1997 Cardinals instructor. 1998 Minor League manager. 1999-2008 Cardinals coach. 2006 he was the manager of the Puerto Rico Team in the World Baseball Classic. He has done a good job with the Cardinals.

Randy Ready I met a few times when he first came up iwth the Brewers and Padres. The type of guy who you knew was going to stay in baseball. he played 1983-95. Brewers 83-86, San Diego 86-89, Philadelphia 1989-91, Oakland 1992, Montreal 1993 and back to Philly 1994-95. Tigers minor league manager 2002-03. Padres minor league manager 2004-08.

I think Wakamatsu, Chip Hale, Joey Cora and Brad Mills are the favorites. It might boil down to Cora and Hale. You never know what is going to happen. Any of them needs to be given time to put an organization in place and guarantee them a period of time to put a winning ball team together. The real problem is more in the front office, than with the manager. The Mariners can't jack them around like they did Bob Melvin and the GM needs to clean up the mess that Bavasi created.

Lauren